What If the Problem Is the Doorway? | Core Transformation® with Mark Andreas
How the patterns we struggle against can become pathways to deeper states of being, greater choice, and lasting change.
What if the parts of yourself you most want to change aren’t actually the problem?
In this conversation, Sarah Melissa Oswald and personal transformation coach Mark Andreas explore Core Transformation®—a process that approaches our unwanted behaviors, emotional reactions, and internal patterns not as obstacles to overcome, but as doorways into something deeper.
Through personal stories, practical examples, and a fascinating exploration of how change actually happens, Sarah and Mark examine what becomes possible when we stop fighting our patterns and begin listening to what they’re trying to do for us.
About This Episode
Core Transformation® begins with a surprisingly compassionate premise. The parts of us responsible for behaviors or emotional reactions we don’t like are often trying, in their own way, to accomplish something positive. Rather than trying to eliminate those parts, the process follows their intentions inward toward what Mark calls a “core state”—experiences such as peace, love, presence, or simply being.
Sarah and Mark explore how this differs from simply understanding why we do what we do, and why insight alone doesn’t always lead to transformation.
Along the way, Mark shares personal stories of using the process in his own marriage, the origins of Core Transformation® in the work of his mother, Connirae Andreas, and the emerging research examining its effectiveness.
Their conversation also moves beyond any single modality, finding fascinating points of connection between Core Transformation®, Gestalt, Relational Life Therapy, couples work, and the larger question of what helps human beings actually integrate change.
Perhaps the most intriguing possibility they explore is this: the thing we experience as the problem may also contain the pathway toward what we’re actually seeking.
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Key Topics Discussed
How Core Transformation® works with unwanted behaviors and emotional patterns
Why the parts of ourselves we struggle with may have positive intentions
The difference between insight and integration
What “core states” are and why they matter
Using inner work to change how we show up in relationships
Mark’s experience using Core Transformation® during conflict in his own marriage
Why transformation doesn’t always require retelling the entire story of what happened
The relationship between Core Transformation®, Gestalt, RLT, and other approaches to change
The origins of Core Transformation® in Connirae Andreas’s work
Research examining the effectiveness of Core Transformation
Why doing less internally can sometimes create more freedom and choice
Questions for Reflection
What part of yourself have you been trying to get rid of, control, or overcome?
What might change if you approached that part with curiosity and asked what it was ultimately trying to create for you?
Where in your life do you understand a pattern intellectually but still find yourself repeating it?
What would integration look like—not simply knowing something differently, but actually experiencing yourself differently?
Why This Conversation Matters
One of the ideas at the center of my work is that our most difficult patterns are rarely random. They developed within a larger relational system, often as intelligent attempts to protect us, maintain connection, or get an important need met.
That doesn’t mean every behavior is healthy or that we shouldn’t take responsibility for how we affect other people. But lasting change rarely comes from declaring war on ourselves.
That’s one reason Mark’s work resonates so deeply with me.
Core Transformation® offers a different way of approaching the parts of ourselves that we wish would simply disappear: not by excusing them, and not by overpowering them, but by becoming curious about what lies underneath them.
Our approaches are different, but throughout this conversation I was struck by how often we arrived at similar territory: the possibility that what looks like the obstacle may actually become the doorway.
If these ideas resonate with you, they’re also woven throughout my relationship coaching practice. I work with individuals and couples to understand the patterns shaping their relationships, build greater capacity for connection and repair, and create change that goes deeper than simply learning what they’re “supposed” to do differently.
Resources for Further Exploration
Core Transformation®
Core Transformation® Foundation Training
Books by Mark Andreas
Sweet Fruit from the Bitter Tree: 61 Stories of Creative and Compassionate Ways Out of Conflict
Waltzing with Wolverines: Finding Connection and Cooperation with Troubled Teens
Learn More About Mark
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If this conversation sparked something in you, I’d love to hear your reflections.
📧 sarah@facetsofconnection.com
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This is Facets of Connection, a podcast exploring how we build relationships that actually work in an evolving world. I'm your host, Sarah Melissa Oswald, a relationship coach and founder of Lead Your Love Life. Each episode explores the many dimensions of human connection from romantic partnerships and family systems to leadership community, and the inner relationship we have with ourselves Through thoughtful conversations with fascinating guests and occasional deep dives into the skills that help relationships thrive, we'll explore what it takes to build connections that are rooted in dignity. Respect, repair and resilience because the quality of our relationships shapes the quality of our lives and the future that we're building together.
Today’s guest is someone I’ve known for a long time, and this conversation felt particularly special to me because our work has evolved in interestingly parallel directions.
Mark Andreas is a personal transformation coach and internationally recognized trainer of Core Transformation, the Wholeness Work, NLP, and Metaphors of Movement. But long before Mark was doing this work professionally, he studied Peace and Global Studies and spent two years working with troubled teens in a wilderness therapy program—which, when you hear this conversation, makes a lot of sense. There’s a thread running through Mark’s work around what becomes possible when we stop fighting against people—or against parts of ourselves—and get curious about what’s underneath.
Mark is now one of the primary trainers of Core Transformation, a process originally developed by his mother, Connirae Andreas, and he’s also been leading the research into its effectiveness. Most recently, that included a randomized controlled trial published in Spirituality in Clinical Practice in 2026.
He’s also the author of Sweet Fruit from the Bitter Tree, a collection of stories about creative and compassionate ways out of conflict, and Waltzing with Wolverines, about finding connection and cooperation with troubled teens.
Mark and I both live here in Boulder, and we’ve been friends for many years. What I loved about this conversation is that it really didn’t feel like an interview. It felt like two friends and practitioners getting curious together—about where our work overlaps, where it differs, and this fascinating possibility that the very patterns we work so hard to get rid of may actually be doorways into something deeper.
We talk about Core Transformation, of course, but also relationships, conflict, parts work, integration, what actually creates lasting change, and some really personal examples from both of our lives and work.
So, I’m really happy to introduce you to my friend, Mark Andreas.
And with that, here we go…
Mark, thanks so much for being here with me. Yeah. Really, really happy to be here.
I am too. I've been thinking about having you on this podcast for a long time, actually. . It seems like our work, um, has a fair amount of overlap, but also so much that distinguishes your work from my work that this could be a fruitful conversation for anyone listening- Yeah ... to learn more about how to make transformation in their own lives.
Yeah. Totally, totally. Yeah, I love- I know you have a long history of being involved in this work, but before you tell me anything about that, I was just curious if you would share what you feel is your unique light in this world. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I suppose we all have our uniquenesses, but I don't think of myself as having any particular unique light.
But I do think that, um, I'm in a unique position and, like, a very privileged position to have grown up with the work that I've grown up with in my family, and, and being in a position to bring this work to the world in a, in a big way. Um, and so that's what I've been feeling the most strongly more recently, is just the unique position that I'm in to bring Core Transformation, wholeness work, what my mother has developed, um, t- through the research
And the certification programs, and all the stuff that we'll talk about. To get it out there. , And so that's what's really exciting to me currently, and I would say the other response I have to that question is I've always had a, I don't know if it's a unique light, but it's, I've always had a theme of being interested in conflict resolution since forever.
Through childhood, , my aunt and uncle would jokingly call me the peacemaker or whatever [00:03:00] with me and my cousins, and I studied peace and global studies in college. And then, with this work, it's really, like, inner peace. It's the inner conflict resolution.
Of course, worked with, with, uh, you know, teens for two years in a wilderness therapy program that had lots of very interesting conflict. Um, so I've just always been fascinated by conflict and how we might get along in happier ways with each other, um, and also internally, so. I think that's part of your unique light, as I've
experienced you.
I would-
experienced you. And that's something I really love about what you're doing too, of course, is the, the relationality of what you do and, and the mission of this podcast
It's very much in alignment with u- with all of that. I agree. Yeah, there's a lot of overlap. I love that you're focused on conflict resolution. You remember when I bought a whole case of your books and gave them out to my [00:04:00] friends for a family- I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm referencing a book of yours that you wrote a while ago called- Yeah
Sweet Fruit From The Bitter Tree, and I know that's not probably what we're gonna talk about here, but I just wanna name, that gave me tools to navigate my own conflict with strangers. Or it gave me- Mm ... more confidence in going out in the world and being able to face whatever comes forward. Awesome.
Awesome. Yeah. I need to reread it now . It's been a little while, but I love those stories. , Just so creative, outside-the-box responses. Well, they were all focused on human-ness, human connection. Yeah. Seeing the humanity underneath someone's struggles. Yeah. Totally. . And it sounds like core transformation also does something similar.
Very much so. It's like the more y- I experience that process for myself and also with clients, it just becomes [00:05:00] obvious that it's like, oh, every single behavior, no matter how it may look on the surface level, it's all, the core of it is, is trying to get something deeply positive and universal.
So It makes it easier when you see somebody who's not having their best day, , to see it that way as opposed to like, "What are you doing to me? Why, why me?" That kind of a thing. Yeah. I think I am tracking what you mean, but I imagine people who , might be listening could be a little confused- Yeah, might need to know-
about what you mean by that ... what is this core transformation thing anyways? Yeah. Right? Yeah, I'm curious about that- Yeah ... as well. And what I think I understand about core transformation is that there's an assumption that patterns are not the problem, but they're the entrance to figuring something else out.
Yeah. . The, the struggles that we experience could actually be part of the solution, or that they have some bigger purpose for us. [00:06:00] Yeah. How I would put it is that- Yeah ... like the patterns,, they might be the problem at the surface level. They, they might be causing real problems for us.
But it's not, um... But it's also the doorway. So the problem that we're experiencing is the doorway to, to these profound states of being. Like oneness, um, wholeness, being,
oneness, um, wholeness, being, presence that,
or just a sense of okayness. Um, nothingness was a core state with a client just this morning that I worked with. Um, that this process it's just a really reliable way to that state of being.
Yeah. How so? I mean, how are the struggles the doorway into a more- Yeah. So, s- so specifically, we, we start with the process. We start with some feeling, some thought, some habit or behavior that's not helpful. And this is like, so I recognize at a conscious level, like, "This is not serving me.
This is not [00:07:00] useful." Um, anxiety, anger, nail biting, smoking. You know, um, maybe I have this inner thought that says, "Oh, God, you screwed up again, you idiot," or something like that. So, so these direct experiences, it is a problem, and yet we can, through the process, we begin, we find the part of us generating that.
So it's not something that I'm consciously deciding to ha- have happen, so we can assume there's some unconscious part of me, some auto- automatic part of me generating this response. And through the process, we get in touch with where we experience that, that part of us that's generating that. So generally, it's like, "Okay, let me just close my eyes and notice, where do I sense this?
I'm not deciding to think I'm an idiot, but I have ... the thought just appeared. Where do I sense this part of me that's generating this thought?" And we welcome the part, thank it for being here, because we know that it has something positive, and [00:08:00] ask the part, "What, what do you want when you s- when you say this to me?
What do you want when you're feeling this anxiety?" And listen for the response back, and we just kind of repeat that process, um, until we get to deeper and deeper outcomes, what, what this part is really wanting for us. And often it surprises people. So initially, we can have certain ideas about what a part might want.
Um, generally, it's around protecting us or somebody else in some way, um, serving us in some way, but it can really surprise people, and even, you know, myself. Having done this thousands of times, um, that if I guide myself through a process, it's not necessarily what I might expect going into it. You can do this on your own?
You can do this on your own, yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I have a great experience [00:09:00] just recently, like a month ago, with-- that I th- I wanted to share with you in particular because of your couples work, where Catherine, my wife Catherine and I were in a-- got in an argument, and I was like, I was really mad, which just doesn't happen that often, but I was like really mad.
And afterwards, I was like, "Oh man, I'm gonna have to do a bunch of CT sessions on this one." And, uh, I had like fifteen minutes before a client call, and so I'm like, well, let me just see what I c... Like, I'll just start. I'll just start something and surely I'm gonna like be working with multiple other things later.
So I just really quickly like did basically that process that I just described. There's a very precise script that we've h- kind of honed over the years of what's, um, what generally tends to be the, the easiest way in to follow the, that down, and then of course also ways of modifying if it, you know, to fit the person.
It's all about meeting what's arising in the person, not about fitting the person to the [00:10:00] process. Um, so I just guided myself through. I had fifteen minutes just kinda quickly through, and I got to a core state. I don't even remember what it was at this point. Something really nice. Some state of being-ness, oneness, love, something like that.
And, and kind of the next f- the next phase then when you get to that core state of being is, okay, so this inner part thought it needed to go through this process to, to do these things first in order to get this state of being. A state of being is just a state of being. You don't have to do anything to get it.
You can just step in and have it. Mm. So that's the, the, the key, and then the, the part gets to step in and have whatever it is, oneness, being-ness, and then discover how that transforms each of the other outcomes that it wanted all the way back through to the initial limitation of like, oh, you're such an idiot or whatever.
And so it, so it's a, a deep transformative [00:11:00] resource. The core state is what makes the process so profound. It's, it's not just, um, you know, a lot of processes, a lot of parts work is about negotiating with parts or having better, creating better dial- inner dialogue, but there's still inner division. There's still negotiation that needs to happen.
There's still kind of needing to manage sort of a bunch of stuff going on on the inside, even if it's done a lot better. And, and so with this process, with the core state of being It just transforms all of that other stuff. And then the next phase of the process is actually a, a way of integrating what was a separate part.
So we can go beyond, um, traditional parts work and actually getting... You know, often people's experience is, is like, "Oh my gosh, there's all these different parts." But it [00:12:00] doesn't have to be that way. Like, ultimately we're whole human beings, um- Yes we are And so it's- One whole human. Exactly. And so it's a way of, of, of meeting our system where it is and, and the fractured nature of every human being.
That's kind of how it normally goes, but, but it provides a pathway to, to more and more integration and wholeness, um, which is one of the, one of the uniquenesses of the process. And the core state is what allows that to be possible. Like, without the core state experience, integrating a part, it's just not gonna be an easy thing to do.
No, it's not easy. Um, but when a part- I've watched people struggle with it for years. Yeah. Yeah. And the- People who have all this insight and know how to do it- Yes ... still struggle- Yeah ... with integration- Yeah ... of those parts. Yeah. Yeah. And- And it sounds like your work just loves those parts and brings them close and asks, "What are you trying to teach me?
What are you, what are you [00:13:00] doing for me?" Yeah. Yeah? Something like that? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And you know, and that's why a lot of people assume that these parts, we're just stuck with them. Like, they can't integrate. Just gotta learn how to live better- Mm ... um, navigate better. Um, but there is a way to, to actually integrate these, these parts.
Yeah. And that's the core state. Yeah. That's what makes that possible. That's the core state. Yeah. No, or the core state- Integration ... is the resource that allows that integration of the part to be possible, where, um, in many cases, like you say, it's like, "Yeah, how many years have I known that I have this part, and I know why it was formed, and I know that it's not serving in my adult life context, but it's still something I have to manage."
And, you know, maybe I can manage it better with the insight or with tools or, you know, that awareness. That can help hugely. Mm-hmm. But there's still something to manage, as opposed to, you know, a lot of my clients, when we kind [00:14:00] of do feedback in the next session, it's like, "Oh, yeah, remind me, what did we work on again?"
And, and it's like, "Oh, yeah, we did this and this and this." And it's like, "Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah, I totally forgot about that, but that hasn't been a problem for me." Wow. Um, and yeah. And now this isn't to say that every session is this way, but it is a very common- Hmm ... it's a very common thing. And of course, some problems, issues that people come with are gonna involve many more than, than one or two parts, too.
So sometimes it's about just staying with it and working with integrating a lot of different parts and making that incremental progress to more, more wholeness, so. Hmm. Like it can keep going deeper and deeper. Yeah. Well, it's like... Or layers, you know? It's like, um, there can be... Sometimes somebody shows up, and it's like, "Okay, there's one part of me that's mad, that's getting mad about [00:15:00] whatever."
We do a session. There's one I have on, on YouTube that a client who volunteered to just post the whole session on YouTube, where with anger, often it is just one part, and you can do the process, and it's like, okay, he had like decades of anger issues, uh, are just gone, just totally resolved. He doesn't have to think about it anymore.
Um, you can see the whole session on, on YouTube, start to finish. Can you share that link so I can put it in the show notes? Yeah. I'll share that link. Okay. I would love to watch it. Um, so- I got this little flavor of the work when I participated in your research. Yeah. You got to experience two sessions, right?
Two sessions only. Yeah.
yeah.
But your, what you're describing of people not really remembering what they worked on because it shifted, and they no longer needed to worry about it- Yeah ... that was my experience, too, as I think back to what I was working on in those sessions. Hmm. I don't really remember, but I remember- Yeah
the way I felt. [00:16:00] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Do you wanna share more, anything more about your own experience? You don't have to, but yeah. Um- Maybe you don't remember. I don't know, I don't know what's most important to share or what could be valuable, but- Yeah, yeah ... what I remember walking away with was the sense that like, "Oh, I already have everything I need."
Yeah. Totally. All these parts that are struggling in whatever way they were struggling- Yeah ... are here to help me. Yeah. And they have good intentions. Yeah. And that- Like, there's goodness under every single aspect. Yeah. Yeah, totally. It's the... What I, what I loved about it was how loving it, this model is.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a very gentle way of working, yeah. Not just gentle in the session, but loving of all those parts that I thought, "Man, that thing that I do is really frustrating me." Yeah. And I could turn to it and think, "Why are you here? [00:17:00] Just get out of here." Yeah.
Yeah. But
through Core Transformation, it makes the assumption that that part of me has something that it's trying to give me, something good.
Yeah. Yeah. And underneath all of that, whatever those steps are, it seems that the assumption is that human beings are good. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and one of the things along those lines that, that also makes it so powerful is that it's, it's just what you said. A lot of times, um, like I'm thinking even just the, the person that I worked with earlier today, um, initially was saying like, "You know, it's, it's common for me to have be- it's difficult for me to get in touch with my experience, and it's, you know, common to have sort of like resistance to, to noticing what's happening and getting in touch with my emotions, and so I just want you to know this [00:18:00] upfront, like it might be, might be challenging.
That's kinda normal for me." And we began with the process, and, you know, started with a part, and then one of these resistances came up, and a lot of ways of working don't d- don't have a, a, a way of dealing with that. Like what happens when resistance comes up or, or the client says, "Oh man, I'm j- I've just got a block now, and suddenly I'm, I lost it.
I'm, I'm out of touch with that," or, "Oh, I just dissociated," or whatever it might be. With this way of working, it's so easy because we just notice that, and that's exactly what's supposed to happen. So okay, so there's some part of you that's just generated this experience of disconnection or whatever it is, and so we notice that part, worked with that, and it w- you know, he, he went so deep into the experience, and it was super easy.
I g- I was surprised actually how, how easy it was. It was like we would just guide through the core state and back, and then we'd come back to the first part, [00:19:00] back through, and like super deep, really connected with his experience, really profound, uh, session. And this process allows ... It's, it's just, it's part of the process to, um, to welcome those, what you might otherwise call a resistance or a challenge or something else is now happening, arising in my experience.
That's all part of it, and we just welcome that part to join in to the process as well. To join in. Yeah. I can make up what I think that means. Like, in my, in my head I'm assuming that you, "Oh, there's resistance. Come on in, resistance. Tell me why you're here. What's your intention for me?" Yeah, exactly. And so then we just do the whole process of that part, guide it through the whole thing.
Rather than trying to, "Okay, let's manage it and then get back to where we were," it's like, no, this is where we're meant to be. So we just guide the whole ... And, and whether or not we get back to, like, where we started, that doesn't matter because this [00:20:00] is the layer. There's this general principle of, like, any time it becomes challenging, it just means we're not working with the part that's asking to be worked with in that moment.
So if we just- Oh ... go with that- It's like there's a little kid in there being, "Me, me, me. Please." Yeah. No, it's like, "Oh, cool." Like, "Focus on me." "Great." And we're like, "Oh, no. This shouldn't be happening." "Get out of here." Yeah. But it's like, no, this is exactly what should be happening. Exactly. So yeah. You know, it sounds similar to the work that I've been taught to do, which is looking at relational patterns between people, and how maybe, maybe when I am triggered or upset about something, I just shut down, right?
Maybe I completely wall off and disappear. And they're ... What I help people discover is that they have spent their whole lives doing that because it's protected them. It has kept them safe. Yeah. But- Or at least it did- But ... at some time, or Yes ... or attempted to. It did at [00:21:00] some time- Yeah. Yeah ... keep them safe, and now in their relationship it's actually causing trouble.
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. But there, we also then say to that part, "Hey, here's what you've cost me. You're no longer in charge." But what I love about core transformation is that it's not demoting that part. It's actually saying, "Come closer." Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Let me love on you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and when the, that part accesses its core state of being, now it becomes a powerful resource that's
And we have a, a, a part of the process, the third phase, the integration is about evolving, growing up to present. So that young part gets to have an experience of not being frozen in time at that younger developmental age of only having the [00:22:00] limited resources that we had as a three-year-old or whatever it might be when that pattern was formed.
Is it can evolve and have access to our whole being, and also share that core state then with our whole being so that we ... It becomes a power- not just a, um, like not just that we're being nicer to the part, but that that part actually becomes a deep resource for us in those moments that's, that's more powerful than, than what our adult selves would think up to do in that, in that situation.
Hm. Can you give a little more clarity to that? I am imagining someone who has no idea what you're talking about- Yeah ... trying to wrap their heads around this. Uh-huh. So how- Yeah ... how does that work in practice, not just in theory? But do, are you open to sharing a little bit- Yeah ... about what it looks like in session?
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And [00:23:00] again, I think, like the, um- You know, it's a lot to summarize. This,
a
session would likely be 90 minutes. It's a, it's a deep kind of process that often doesn't fit within an hour. So to summarize it briefly, just keep that in mind for everyone listening. Yeah, that's fair. Um- And it moves slowly, doesn't it?
It can move slowly. It can move more quickly. Yeah. But it often is, uh,
you,
you might say slowly. Um... My experience of it, Mark, was almost like hypnosis. Yeah. It's often a altered experience for people going in. Mm-hmm. It felt like an altered state. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, the So what, what I'm gonna share as part of the resources is a micro book on the first two phases of the process, so that will have all [00:24:00] of the, all of the details, and then, like, how to find a starting place, and how to guide yourself through the process.
Oh, cool. So that's really gonna be the, um, the best answer to this question
Perfect
for people. Perfect. So it's something that- Yeah ... people can use at home for, on themselves. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a mic- a mini book for practitioners. It's for the individual- No, it's for your own know nothing of this process, total intro, um, how you can guide yourself through the beginning part of the process.
Amazing. Yeah. That's such a great resource. Um, so- I can't wait to check it out myself ... so it has a, like a word-for-word script that you can ask yourself the questions, um, write down your answers, and, and guide, guide for kind of how to
find a
starting place and that kind of thing. Hmm. Um, so that's the first two phases of the process.
That's identifying the part, generating the, the unwanted response that we're having that we wanna shift, um, the questions to ask to discover the deeper [00:25:00] l- layers, the deeper outcomes that that part wants, all the way down to the core state, which is some state of being that just is. The, the definition of a core state is that we get
Nothing needs to happen to, to experience it. It's just at a beingness level. So oneness, wholeness, okayness, presence. Um, and then from that core state, discovering, okay, if I just, if the part just steps in and has this already, which it can do, it doesn't have to wait for any of that other stuff- Yeah ... it can just have this to begin with, now how does this transform each of those other outcomes all the way back through to the initial problematic response?
So tho- that's the first two phases, which will be in the micro book. Then the, the th- the third phase is the one where we find out what was the age of this part, and, um, giving it a, a way of, of, if it wants to ... This is always a invitation only. Like, we're not gonna force a part to do anything it doesn't want to.
But generally, [00:26:00] they always want to once they understand the, the purpose of the evolving and growing up phase. Um, so that's phase three, and that's where the part can, can then integrate with us as a whole, and we get that integration, uh, where we don't need to be managing parts inside anymore. Even if they're, like, more resourceful parts, we don't need to have that inner separation any longer.
The way I'm hearing it is almost like you're identifying more of what that part looks like, where it came from, how old it is It's, it's really as simple as just asking inwardly, "How old are you?" And going with the response that comes. Mm-hmm.
So,
like, when I do it for myself, I just get a, like, a number pops up, and I don't even have any...
Sometimes people have a insight of, like, some memory when, when something, when that part was formed, but, but you don't need that. You don't need that insight or that, um, [00:27:00] conscious level understanding of where it arose. We just kind of work with the experience in the present moment and trust whatever answer the arises, and we go with that, and then there's a process for inviting it experientially to do the growing up thing.
Um, so it's a very experiential process. And it sounds- Yeah ... like it's really rooted in a lot of trust. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Trusting. Well, and you gain that trust through doing, through doing the process. Like, initially people tend to go, you know, like, if another part arises or they feel resistance or, like, another negative feeling comes in during the process, initially people's res- response tends to be something like, "Oh, no.
Gosh, another thing coming up. Oh." But it, but you do this process enough, and you start to get excited when that happens. Like, when I'm working with somebody and they tell me that, like, they just got disconnected from the experience, I go, [00:28:00] like, that's the moment in the session where I go, like, "Oh, okay, great.
Now, like, something juicy is happening here." Um- Now more of you is actually in the room. Yeah. And this is exactly what we wanna access that's likely what you've been just trying to, like, shove aside and a, and kind of get through some program without paying attention to it. Um, so yeah. It's a, it's, that's a really nice thing.
I love the way you say, like, "Oh, get excited when those parts show up," because it means- Yeah ... something juicy is in the room. Yeah. I think of that, um, I use something similar when I talk about conflict with couples. Yeah. Like, I've done conflict enough now to know that something better is on the other side.
Yeah. And so I get excited when conflict arrives. Totally. 'Cause that's what- Because I know we're going somewhere ... that's what we're here for, right? Yeah. Totally. Mm. Totally. Yeah. I'm just looking at- Yeah ... some of the, the questions that I had written [00:29:00] down about this. Yeah. While you do, I'll just, I realized I never finished my own personal story.
Oh, okay. So I'll close the loop on that, which is that, so I did my quick 15-minute thing, and I was sure, I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna have to do at least two other sessions on some different parts here or something." But- I felt amazing and I went into my client session. Then after my client session, I was going
You know, the one where I was guiding somebody else on their, on their issue, not, not my own. Um, and I was going, "Wow, I don't think it ... I don't ... There's nothing more to do here." Like, it was just done, and it was ... There was no conscious mind ins- I mean, it was ... I basically was just left with a sense of like, well, I love her and she loves me, and that was just so obvious that there was, like, nothing to talk about anymore.
It was like [00:30:00] I, I was assuming, I was like, "I'm gonna have to really tell her about this and this and this, that I need to, like," you know, "that it's really important to communicate." And sometimes there are important things to communicate, but in this case it was just, "No, actually that was all my stuff, and now I don't need to, um, go into a big process with her because it's just done."
Huh. Yeah. So you went from extreme anger to, "It's all my stuff. It's o- it's over. I'm good. I found my core state, and I'm ready to move on." Like, "I've got what I need now," and that's, and there's nothing that even needs to be said. How did you take that back to Catherine? I'm just curious. As you said that, I had this thought of, "But you're depriving her of actually being with you through that transformation."
How did you share it with her? Oh, yeah. How does it bring you closer to her- Well, so she ... The both of us- Rather than- Yeah. Both of us do core transformation with- Oh, really? ... with [00:31:00] oursel- with our stuff, and sometimes that involves the other person, uh, not surprisingly. Um, so you know, she also very much has gotten huge benefit from the process.
Um, and so I just told her, I was like, "I did a CT," and I was like, "Sure, I was gonna have to do at least two more, but I'm good." Like, um, and, and I realized, like, yeah, it was just kinda my, my thing apparently. Um- Hmm ... and so, yeah. There was just sort of, it was like I actually I have, I've got what I need and, um
And yeah, I don't remember super clearly any further details about our, um ... But I'm guessing that I was, you know, checking in if she needed anything more too or, you know, um, or- You're not just saying, "Hey, I'm good now. Let's go." Yeah, I'm good. We're[00:32:00]
Um, so yeah. That was a, that was ... You know, so I've been doing this since, you know, for a long time, about 17 years, and still surprises me sometimes, uh, in my own experience and Yeah. And, and, and, and other times, you know, it's not that it's, that that's how it should go, it's just that's an interesting example of how it can go.
Other times it's like, "Oh, now I have real clarity of, like, what's important to communicate to my partner about, uh, something." And, you know, so I'm really clear about what's important to me, what my needs are, and be able to do that from an, from a really resourceful place as opposed to, like, a triggered kind of begrudging place or something like that.
So you made contact with the core state underneath that anger. And then what about that actually allowed you to [00:33:00] transform your relationship with that protective strategy?
So
I'll share some Like, why, why
is this important? Why is not, why is insight alone not enough? How can that- Yeah ... not create the transformation that Core- Yeah ... Transformation is capable of? Yeah, totally. Well, so I'll share some, some metaphors for that in a moment. But I think, like, probably every listener can relate to being consciously aware of something being a problem, and yet it's still a problem, right?
You know, occasionally we can have insight about something and, and, and it might shift, or maybe it shifts without insight. You know, we evolve and, and grow and, and that sort of thing. But a lot of the time we have, we know at a conscious level, okay, like blowing up at, when my boss says XYZ or, you know, feeling [00:34:00] anxious about how my partner's gonna respond or, like, whatever it might be, it's not serving me.
I know that consciously. I even have done therapy, and I know where it came from, and I understand that it's trying to, it's this protective strategy from when I was young and growing up in the environment I w- grew up in and, and all of that. But does it change that response? No. It's like I'm still, I might be able to manage it better, like I might somet- I
might
be able to, like, hold it back sometimes or, you know, in the moments.
But it's, it takes work and effort and energy to do that, and willpower, and when our willpower is depleted, then, like, out it comes, and it doesn't look so good. That's right. Um- Who can remember their communication skills in the heat of an argument? Right. Yeah. You know? Totally. And so, um, yeah, so, so with, with, with a lot of processes, uh, um, transformation processes, it's [00:35:00] kind of like if we have a broken arm, um, it's kind of like putting a cast on the arm, which is, or our protective strategies are often that way.
It's like, okay, that's actually a really good thing to do if you have a broken arm, is to put a cast on it. Like immobilize it, no more further damage will happen, and give it some, like, some protection to be able to heal. But at a certain point, it's, the healing has gone as far as it can with the cast on there.
And for, for the f- for the further healing to happen, the cast needs to come off. And a lot of processes are kind of like, well, let's try to decorate the cast or let's paint it or s- get all our friends to sign the cast or whatever. But it's like, but I still have a cast on, and it's rigid, and it's now that's restricting my motion, and it's actually preventing full, the full healing capacity.
So with Core Transformation, it's like finding those casts, those protective strategies, and [00:36:00] allowing them to come off, um, rather than trying to add something else on to make it better. Make it or make it look better or kind of, um, make it not quite as awkward as it's been. Um, so I really like that metaphor.
Like another client put it, he said, he said, "You know, a lot of things I've done, uh, personal growth wise have felt kind of like if there's a bug in the operating system, kind of like creating a workaround, like adding some programming to like- Hmm ... circumvent the, like the bug in the program. Whereas this feels like just getting back to the source code or like, you know, just getting back, you know, just removing the bug.
Rather than a workaround, removing it, getting back to the, the, the source, and that's really what this process is all about. Hmm. So yeah, I don't know if there's a follow-up on that How do you convince, how do you convince that [00:37:00] part to take the cast off? So the beauty of it is that you don't ... Yeah, so the, you don't have to do any convincing because the whole
And that's why, um, you know, ha- having the problem, having the part be the doorway to, to the core state, you're, you're, you're n- um, there's no convincing needed because you're just asking the part, "What do you want?" the whole time, and eventually it says oneness or peace or being and, and then you, you present this, this, you know, you have the part find out in its own experience.
So th- this state of being, you know, this core state of being, the wonderful thing about this is that you don't need to do anything to have it. Uh, you thought you needed to do these other steps first. That is not a very good way of, of going about it. Like, you probably didn't get to experience peace or oneness or whatever it is very often going about it in that way.
Um, and so th- this is the good [00:38:00] news. You can just step in. It's so much easier than you thought. You can just step in and have it. And so then we invite the part to do that in experience and, and so the part doesn't need any convincing. It's happens through the experience, and then it discovers how everything else just becomes so much easier through that experience.
. So you're, you're actually not helping people create the core state, but clearing stuff out of the way so that they can experience it. Exactly, yeah, which is really key.
And do you find that each part has a different core state that it can get to, or is there typically one core state for each individual that they- Um- ... that has their home base? So it might, it, it's things a ... S- so it can be different and it can be the same. I've worked with some people where it's like, you know, I remember one person where it's like, yeah, it was one, one
every time it was, like, the same phrase, but it's something, it can be, and it can also be different. So, but it's these things like [00:39:00] love, a, like, just a beingness level kind of love that just is, or oneness, okayness, presence, peace, nothingness. You know, people have different words for it, but the basic thing is that it's a state of being that's possible to experience regardless of what's happening or doesn't happen, um, which, and it's what you sh- shared, which is it's not something that we create.
It just is. So it's, it's indestructible. It's just, it is what it is. We can lose tra- lose touch with this, but it's always been there and it always will be, and now the, the part through the, through its own process is Remembering that I can just step in and have it, basically. Um It's always there with us.
Yeah, it's always there, and it's always, always will be there, and so it's nothing to, to create. It's just [00:40:00] like you said, it's like Just remembering almost. Um Oh, I love that. Yeah Remembering who I really am- Yeah ... underneath all these protective strategies that I've- Yeah ... dealt with throughout- Yeah ... most of my life.
And for a lot of people, it's like, um, the f- their, their first experience of, of a core state through the process can be something that, that they feel like they've never experienced before. Like, my mom's first experience, she developed the, the process, the core transformation process, and, um, part of what inspired her to develop it was this experience that she had.
Uh, it was her first experience of a core state. This was before she had developed the process, but it, it led her, and it was a totally different experience that, that, um, that she arrived there. Um, but having that experience m- made her [00:41:00] realize that this was even possible. And her experience was, um, it was with, uh, Milton Erickson, who's a, a famous hypnotherapist, um, that she went to see in, in the, like, one of the la- maybe the last year of his life or something.
And so he had his own wizardry and, and, um, he would do ... He was a master of hypno- hypnotherapy and hypnosis and communication, and so she has no idea how he orchestrated this, this experience for her. Um, but it was,
f-
her experience was, like, in that moment, she s- she suddenly had this profound sense of, "Everything's gonna be okay."
Like, um, "I don't know why or how, but, like, it's all okay." And up unt- and it felt to her like she had been, her whole life she had been living with, like, in a costume or, like, with masks or something, and, like, all of that had just come away, [00:42:00] and it was just Everything was, everything just totally okay. This deep, profound sense of, of okayness, just h- just how things are.
And that experience lasted for f- her for, for a couple weeks, but then it faded. And she then let, you know, kind of was ... went into her, her, uh, pursuit of, "Okay, is there some way that I could find that again reliably?" 'Cause I don't know what Milton Erickson did. Um, and her, her take on it is that whatever he did, he orchestrated it from, from the outside, and so it didn't last.
It was a deeply profound experience, but it came from what- whatever he was doing from the outside. And so core transformation is a process where it comes from the inside. Like, it's a reliable way of, [00:43:00] um ... You know, when I'm guiding somebody, I don't have to be some magician and manipulate things so that somebody has this
You know, like you said, it's not something that we need to create. You just follow this very simple process and it's there. Like, it's there and it just comes out That's so wild to me. I've had, I have a lot of thoughts as you're talking about your mother here Yeah. Um, one thought that showed up was I can imagine my clients saying to me Everything feels okay now, right?
I've hit, I've hit that place where I don't have to do anything. Everything's gonna be okay. Yeah. And then, okay, maybe it's me. My other part inside- Probably not ... would say, "Oh, no, you can't rest. There's still much to do." Yeah, yeah. Don't think you're gonna be okay. There is a lot- Totally ... to do to maintain this state.
And I hear you saying- Yeah ... [00:44:00] actually it's actually about doing less. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And that's a really common concern that comes up. Mm. It's definitely not just you. Probably, probably every human being. Um- Hmm and so then in that moment, the, the beauty is you can, again, just like welcome that concern and like, okay, well, just check, check.
Like close your eyes and notice. Like, so ask this part, when you have this oneness as a way of being, is it a problem? Is it a problem with the things that you need to do, or does it actually support and enrich, make it that much easier to do the things that you- That's it ... want to do? It makes it easier to do the things that we have to do.
Yeah. So, so either the person say- notices that in their own experience. So again, I don't need to convince of anything. And they're like, "Oh, yeah, it makes, it supports all of this stuff." Sometimes I joke, like I've, I've guided a lot of people through this process, and I've never had [00:45:00] somebody just like turn into a couch potato 'cause they're just in oneness, and they're like, "Nah, I'm not gonna do anything now."
Never? Um, never had it happen. Okay. Never been, never been a, a cl- a concern. Um, but of course, it supports, there's more that, more capacity that we have. There's more that we can do because it takes less energy and, and there's more alignment with what we really wanna be doing, and not doing what we don't wanna do, and that sort of stuff.
But of course, the other possibility is that a part goes, "Okay, I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced," and then you just welcome that part and guide that part through. And then pretty soon you're all in oneness, so. Pretty soon you're just not here. It sounds too good to be true, Mark. It does, yeah. Doesn't it?
- And so that's why we're so excited to have research that shows hard data- Yes ... um, on the, the effectiveness with clients. And so we have, um, [00:46:00] uh, there are, uh, three published research studies. So a pilot study, um, and then two RCT, randomly controlled trials, that, that we have published in peer review journals.
And, um, the first of those studies was one, one person, one, uh, practitioner independent of us did this as his, uh, doctoral research, and he guided everybody through the process. Uh, a single session of core transformation And one of the things that was the most striking, even to us where we see this kind of transformation happening, um, all the time with our clients, is that in, of the group that he worked with, um, it was around 150 people, something like that.
So it was a pretty sizable group. Um, and of those people, there was a subset that w- um, according [00:47:00] to the ... So they, for the research, they filled out surveys before and after, and, um, basic well-beingness surveys, and one of those surveys was the GHQ, uh,
uh, GHQ
GHQ12 questionnaire, which, um, if you get, if you get a certain measurement, um, it indicates you would likely be, um, diagnosable with a mental health- Hmm
disorder. Um, and so there was, of the, of the, there was a subsection of the population that, um, qualified for that according to their initial, uh, uh, the GHQ12 when they initially did the survey. After their single session, 61% of them no longer fell into that category of qualifying for a mental, uh, likely qualifying for a, a diagnosis.
Yeah, mental health diagnosis. Wow. After a single session of core transformation. A single session. Yeah. So that was something that even to, e- even was, um, uh, yeah, something that we [00:48:00] were quite amazed by. Then in our, in the, the most recent study that was published this year in 2026, this was a study that, um, Dinesh, who's, who authored that first study, teamed up with, with me and another author, and what we did was we tracked, we used similar measurements, but we were tracking all of our, um, our coaches in our coach certification training.
They have to guide a certain number of volunteer clients through the process as part of the, um, a part of their training. And so we did research before and after with all of their clients, their volunteer clients. So these are people who have not experienced core transformation before. Um, and they sh- they showed, they did two 90-minute sessions with, with these clients, and the results
So the study shows the results of, of this whole cohort. So a lot of times when research happens, [00:49:00] they choose the best, most experienced practitioner in a method. Um, and, and so it can show some impressive results, and then they go and try to replicate the results, and then it, it doesn't, it doesn't work out so well.
So this is really exciting because these, um- The, the coaches in training, the, they're, they were still in their training, they're not even certified yet, um, showed similar results as that initial study, so,
a-
after just two 90-minute sessions. So, um, so this shows that it can be taught reliably, it can be replicated.
It's the process. It's not one amazing therapist or coach. Right. Um, that this is, is, can be replicated. And the other thing that's really exciting is that we did a meta-analysis with other, um, other really like, you know, kind of like the gold standard in therapy, [00:50:00] CBT, mindfulness, um, some other approaches.
And what, what our coaches in training were able to... The effect sizes that, that the research showed with, uh, with, with these clients after two sessions was in the same range as these other methods got after 13 to 23 sessions. So- Wow. That's outrageous ... yeah, yeah. What it says to me is j- I, I'm hearing a couple things.
So even someone who's not fully certified in this model can produce similar results. So even someone who might be doing it poorly can still have
transformation
And I think it, I think from the way you've described this model and my own experience of it, it seems a little less dangerous than other models.
Yeah. Okay? Yeah. Certain models practiced poorly could create some serious [00:51:00] damage. Yeah. But Core Transformation-
Yeah, I agree with that ... practiced mediocre, maybe poorly, doesn't sound like it can do damage. If anything- Yeah, yeah ... it's just a new possibility. I agree. I agree. It's a really safe way of working because it's so gentle. It's acknowledging, welcoming, and yeah. So I would totally agree with that, and that's one of our reasons for creating the coach certification program is that this is...
I mean, this was our take before doing, before the research, but now we have the research to also, uh, show that this is something that can be taught relatively quickly. I mean, some of the people in the program, uh, they had taken our, uh, six half-day foundation training. Mm-hmm. And then our six half-day advanced training and the coach certification.
That was their whole training in Core Transformation. So it doesn't take a [00:52:00] lot of training to, to get somebody to that, that capacity. Wow, the implications for this are huge. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Like, the potential impact on- Yeah ... humanity could be huge. Yeah. Yeah, so that's why we're, that's, this is our mission is to get this out to more coaches, therapists, and we have people in our programs who, you know, who are just starting fresh, and we also have, like, seasoned therapists and coaches already seeing clients that come into our program and are just, like, thrilled by the kind of impact that this has, um, with their clients, that they're able to see when they bring this into their work.
So if anyone's listening here who is a practitioner already of other modalities- Yeah ... um, I just have a couple of questions for them or- Yeah
for you
to answer. Anything- Yeah ... you may be thinking. Do I need to be a therapist in order to get certified in Core Transformation, or can I be a coach? [00:53:00] You can be a coach.
So it's a coaching program, so you don't need to be a therapist. Coaching. Yeah. Got it. And then can it pair with other modalities, or is it best done just in pure form? So I would say in, in, so it's best done in pure form within a session, but it can absolutely be paired in the sense that, like, you know, it's not the only thing that I do with clients.
Um, I have other modalities that I use, but when I'm doing Core Transformation, I do Core Transformation. So it's not gonna benefit from- trying to hybridize it with something, that's just gonna probably water down both methods and- Mm ... and make least each one less effective. But it's something that, um, you know, that's, that's my, it's, it's my go-to method in my coaching practice, but I also use other methodologies too that I find really helpful.
So it's something you can absolutely bring into your tool set, uh, of what you're already doing with clients, and, [00:54:00] um, just recommended that when you're doing it, you do it. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Um- Yeah, that makes sense ... yeah. So you can weave it
in, just- Yeah. So like, oh, great- Weave it ... let's do a core transformation session with this, and then maybe the next time you do a couples, you do some communication strategies of NVC or w- you know, or whatever your other things are.
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. You know I, I work with couples, right? Mostly. Yeah. And then my work also focuses on ways that protective strategies show up in their relationships and how those protective strategies are causing- Yeah ... difficulty for them. Totally. Totally. So I'm, I'm really curious about core transformation inside partnerships, if you're up for chatting about that.
Yeah. Totally. Um- And I also wanna say, you know, I lo- just that I, I know you're, one of your deep trainings is in the RLT, Terry Real's, uh, Relational Life Therapy, and just wanna say that I [00:55:00] love his stuff. And if I was seeing more couples, I would absolutely get the whole training, uh, that, that he does in the relational piece because, um, yeah, when you're dealing with another human being, communication is an important part of it.
And, um, in my own coaching, I generally work one-on-one with people, but if there's a relational element, often there's a combination of doing the inner work, so that we have access to our own, um, core states in, in, in the relationship, but then also, you know, sometimes it's really helpful to have some- skills development and communic- in, in upping our communication skills.
And, and just some, you know, it's one thing to be in a state of oneness, and sometimes that allows natural communication ability to become freed up and and now things just kind of work easily. But often there's a [00:56:00] lot to be, there's a lot of benefit to be had by learning like, "Oh, well, here's a communication strategy you might try out that might just make things go a lot smoother between you and your partner, and be really helpful for you both, and really clarifying."
So, um, just wanted to also acknowledge that important piece of it. Um, and like, like, um, John and Julie Gottman talk about, you can have all the great communication strategies in the world, and like you mentioned earlier, but if you're triggered, if you're in that young place, it's like, it's not gonna help.
Um, even if you say it, even if you say all the right things and you follow the NVC format or whatever format you're, you're following, um, if you're reactive in that moment, it's just not gonna go over well, so. That's right. And while RLT does teach a lot of tools, it actually begins with couples doing deep inner work in front of [00:57:00] one another.
Mm. Got it. And what I notice is that it actually produces more compassion and understanding between them when they see their partner connecting with that inner child or bumping up against the realities of their childhood upbringing. Yeah. And it sounds like- Yeah ... I'd be very curious to, to see how a partnership could transform if core transformation was done in a session with the other partner watching.
Mm, yeah. It's exciting. Totally. . I have done that once. I had- You have? I don't e- it was so long ago, I don't even remember the details, but I do remember that one time, uh, a couple was, um, wanting to do that, and they found it valuable to, for, for exactly the reasons that you're sharing of, of, um, yeah, just having that, that further empathy for, for the other's experience.
And, um- Not just empathy for the other's- Um- ... [00:58:00] experience, but I find that something magical happens when I'm able to recognize the positive intention underneath my partner's behavior. Yeah, totally. Totally. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. So I think it has a lot of potential. I think there's also areas where, um, you know, sometimes it's gonna be easier, especially if it's an interpersonal thing, and it depends on the couple, for sure.
You know, for some it might be perfect, like, yeah. Like, uh, my wife Catherine was just telling me about somebody, uh, she saw on social media who was like, "Yeah, you know, my husband does this thing every once in a while. It's really helpful. He sits down and he's like, he's like, 'Do you want me to be your best friend right now?
Bitch to me about your husband.'" Um, so some couples are able to do that kind of a thing, and for others, for other times, there's gonna be a understandable, like, concern about, like- Can I even [00:59:00] reveal some of this?
Mm-hmm.
And so in th- in those cases then, of course, um, working individually with core transformation is gonna be the best fit because then they can have the full freedom to just, like, say it however it comes out, whatever their experience from that part is, and not have to have that concern of like, "Oh, gosh, how's my partner gonna take it?"
For sure. Um- Yeah, it's not for every couple. Yeah, yeah. It, sometimes it's
not
safe enough in a partnership- Yeah ... to suggest doing this. Yeah, yeah. Totally. But I, but in- But it's a fun idea. Totally, yeah. And I think it has great potential- Mm-hmm ... in, um, as an option. Um, and, and for Catherine- Or even if it is in private without the partner in the room, I imagine that- Oh, yeah
understanding one's own strategies for protection can- Yeah ... actually change how that person handles conflict in their partnership. Yeah. Yeah, totally. - And it's not too far off from the work I'm doing either. Yeah. [01:00:00] Totally. Like, my wife, Catherine, her, her favorite part of it is the different insights that arise as you're getting those deeper and deeper outcomes or higher and higher outcomes, depending on which metaphor you, you do.
Um- Yeah ... that, um, she finds those, those... Like, you don't need to have the insight, but often those insights naturally arise as you're going through the process, and she finds that her favorite part of the process. And, and it's something where. i'll guide her through the process, um, and she finds that really valuable.
I've offered for her to guide me through, but usually thus far with our young kids, she's been like, "I have other, other ways of spending my time. You do
it yourself."
She's like, "You got it, Mark." "This isn't for you."
"You got it, Mark." "For years."
"You're a pro. You just, you, you got you." But I'm totally open to it. I'm like, "Anytime, you know, you wanna guide me through, I'm, I'm game.
Just let me know." Um, and that's something that we've [01:01:00] found really, um, when I've guided her through with the things that she fully opts into and, and wants to, wants to do, um, we've found that deeply connecting for our relationship, and- Oh, I believe it. Yeah. And it's an easier process to do that because, you know, it's, with a lot of standard therapy, there's kind of like the, the therapy is more, the therapist is more the authority of kind of- Here's where we might go with this or kind of advice from the outside often, depending on what model you're in.
With core transformation, it's ju- you're just following a process. So it's a lot easier to guide a partner through even because it's not like I'm saying anything about how... We're... Like, I'm just asking some nice questions and seeing what comes out and, like, ackno- you know, being thankful for whatever responses come, and, you know, it's all coming from within the person.
So [01:02:00] it's less likely to bring up, you know, annoyances of, like, "Well, you're trying to impose something on me here," or something like that. "That's your idea, but not my idea." But it's 'cause it's all- Hmm ... it's all coming from within through the process, so. I'm thinking about Gestalts. Yeah. Because in Gestalts, I have been taught that we don't need as much story as we think to w- be able to help- Yeah
someone. Yeah. And I imagine that is true in core transformation as well, yeah? Totally. Totally. Like, I mean, I access people's core state through their body, their somatic awareness- Yeah ... like, without story sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds like you're doing something similar without s- Absolutely ... there's no need for the narrative.
Yeah. What's happening right here and now. Yeah, totally. Totally. Not that narrative is not important. Sometimes it absolutely is. Yeah. Often, like, I'll have, I mean, often if somebody's, especially if they've [01:03:00] been to a number of different therapists or coaches, often they're kind of trained to, like, or f- or just f- feel like, "Well, I gotta tell you the whole life history so that you can help me."
Um, so sometimes I'll, I'll let people know, "You know, I'm happy to hear anything you want me to know about your history, but we don't actually need any of it to, to do the work." Yeah. "All we need is what's happening right now that you don't like, and we'll just enter into the process from there." So some people are relieved, and they're like, "Oh, okay.
Great. Let's, yeah, let's just go, go with it. I'm feeling anxious, and I don't want to anymore." And then we can just go in through the experience. And other people really need to tell their story. Totally. Yeah. So, um- Mm. Mm-hmm ... and so then it's like, "Okay, great. I'll listen. I'll hear it, and, uh, just wanna make sure you're not doing it out of a-" Yeah
obligation. Obligation. 'Cause some people don't wanna tell the story. They're like, "I've told this so many times." [01:04:00] Yeah. "I don't wanna tell it again." What a relief. Yeah. I can get help without having to rehash my whole story? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Totally. I'm in. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Mark, we could talk for hours about this.
We could just, we could just keep going all day. We could. Yeah. And I'm aware that we've been chatting for almost an hour now. Yeah. And that there's still huge sections of our plan that we haven't touched upon. Which is totally fine. And that's okay. Yeah. But, um- I think we've covered what a lot of the core important things, even if it wasn't according to a plan.
It wa- yeah, it never is according to a plan. Which is how the whole Core Transformation process works anyways. Right. Same with my work. You have a plan. It does not matter. Yeah. It's here. And I just enjoy hanging out with you and brainstorming about this stuff. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. So I know you have a training coming up- Yeah
[01:05:00] for practitioners to learn this model. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. So it's actually for individuals and practitioners. Oh. So the, the Core Transformation Foundation training, this actually makes it so much richer, whether you're an individual or a practitioner, to have a mix because, um, everyone brings a different flavor into, to the training, um, and to, to have a range of just life experiences coming in.
So the Core Transformation Foundation training, we teach it twice a year, um, once in October and once in the spring. So the next one's, uh, coming up in October. It's six half days, and the focus of the workshop is personal transformation, which is also, as you I'm sure would agree, the best way to learn something if you're gonna be a practitioner, if you wanna go on to- Yeah
through the whole coach certification, is the, the primary focus is personal transformation. So it's a really [01:06:00] wonderful, uh, experience that way, where you get to bring your biggest issue w- at the end, at the final, the final part of the training and, and work it through with Core Transformation. There's lots of assistant support and trainer support.
So I teach it with my aunt, Tamara Andreas, um, who's co-author of the book. She's my mom's sister, um, obviously, my aunt. Um, and so yes, it's just a wonderful way of getting your own personal benefits and transformation, and it's also the first step if you're interested in potentially becoming a practitioner in Core Transformation.
So this s- six half-day inner work program is- Yeah ... just the first stage of becoming certified to do this work? Right. Yeah. Okay. So it's the first, it's the f- it's the first prerequisite if you wanna do the certification program later. Um, so [01:07:00] there's the, the foundation, which this one is, then the advanced training, and then there's the coach certification if, say, I
I attended,
would I gain enough insight to be able to start dabbling with this with my clients?
Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah? Totally. Yeah, for a long time, it's all we had. Okay. That's what people learned, and then they went and they worked, brought it in with their, their clients. So absolutely, especially if you're already... It depends on your other training, you know, what you might feel comfortable with. But we teach the full method in the foundation training, so you get the whole thing.
Hmm. Then in the advanced training, we teach alternate formats, how to work with challenges that arise, and, and common roadblocks to, to moving forward with the process. Um, and then the coach certification is just getting really good at it and lots of practical, um, practice with outside clients who don't know the process, feedback from peers, mentors, from Tamara and I.
So [01:08:00] all of the trainings happen over Zoom. So they're live, and, uh, we do all of the breakouts in smaller breakout rooms over Zoom. So you can attend from anywhere. Um, and it works really well. It works really well with the breakouts and with the assistants coming in and supporting. And, um, yeah, it'd be wonderful to have some more people join us.
I'm, I'm f- fascinated. I would love to, to join. Awesome. For this one, you can just go to coretransformation.org. That's where everything Core Transformation lives specifically.
I'll put that link in. You know, you've mentioned your family a number of times, and I know you've grown up in a world where this stuff was talked about in your household.
Yeah. You've grown up with the people who created NLP. Or at least some of it, yeah. At least some of it. Okay. Not all of it. Yeah. Okay, fine. Not the [01:09:00] founders, but, - developers , and my parents, Steve and Connirae Andreas, they certainly developed a lot of, um, a lot within the field of NLP.
Yeah. So with that in your family of origin, growing up around this work, I'm just curious what you see in our current time with the approaches that are gaining traction. Where do you see coaching or therapy, personal development heading? Like, what are your hopes- Hmm ... for this next generation of practitioners?
What do they need to understand? What's unfolding? Yeah. What's your personal insight on all of that? Well, I think, um, I think one of the things that NLP did really well, which stands for neuro-linguistic programming, kind of a funny, funny name it ended up with. Another t- another conversation, but, um, one of the thing that they did really well and that i- it was a foundation for this work [01:10:00] that, that we're doing now with the Core Transformation and Wholeness Work is another, um, model de- developed by my mo- my mom, Connirae.
Um, what NLP did really well , was creating reliable processes to to get somewhere, and that's something that before then was largely absent from most therapy,
You know, if you, if you take your car into the mechanic to fix something, there's like a process for doing that that works really well, and it's really reliable. Like yeah, it'll be-- We'll come out of the shop and it'll be fixed. , And NLP , was bringing that into therapy, to coaching, is modeling excellence, modeling how people change and how people successfully transform and, and putting that into replicatable processes.
Thing, you know, things that can be researched, that can be, um, taught and replicated [01:11:00] easily, um, rather than just kind of relying on the wizardry of like some incredible person with all this combination of insight. But how do you transfer that to somebody else to do what Erickson did? You know, the kind of magic that he would pull off with people.
Um, and so with, with the core transformation, the wholeness work, it has that precision that, that there's that process element of, yeah, we don't have to go into the whole story and hope that somewhere along the way something will happen, that there's a really reliable process to, to get to that, that place that we all wanna be, that , core place.
And, um, and the core state, that's something that goes beyond NLP, traditional NLP can, can be really powerful, really effective. But Really my mom's, um, inspiration in developing Core Transformation was because NLP kind of didn't work for her. Hmm. She was like the, [01:12:00] the tough case.
Like,
she, uh,
even one of her therapists was like, "This works with everybody else that I do it with, but it's not working with you, so I don't know. I don't know what to do here." Her biggest stuff, it was not budging with the ch- classical NLP stuff.
And so she, she's like, "Okay, I need something more. I need something that works at a deeper level." And with this, this core state experience, the thing that's unique about Core Transformation and wh- and the wholeness work as well is that it, it's a relaxing of the effort, like what we were talking about, like removing the cast.
You know, even these really effective NLP processes, it's still like adding something, adding ... Often, often it's kind of like, well, we're gonna run a pr- a new program, or we're gonna add a new program. And so there can even be this subtle efforting that, that is required to maintain it, to maintain my positive state.
I know how to access my positive state now, but I still have to do something a [01:13:00] little bit to ... It's easier than just willpower, total willpower. Mm. But there's still this doing kind of thing, as opposed to like just actually letting all of that go. Now f- and for some people, that's really appropriate. It's like, yeah, being able to have something that I can reliably do and it gets better results, that's great.
You know, it's ... and can be super helpful. Um, but the nice
the,
you know, where this goes a le- level deeper is actually relaxing the doing and letting go of the ... and just allowing things to happen from a different place. Um, and so that's where ... That's ... So this is a very long-winded answer to your question of, um- That's okay things going is in this direction of we don't need to add more stuff on for people to do, and that, uh, we- Doesn't have to be a struggle
doesn't have to be a struggle, yeah. Mm. I love that that has [01:14:00] been your family's mission. Not just the lack of struggle part, but to create something formulaic that anybody can access, that you don't have to be this brilliant therapist who's done thousands of hours of training, but that you can take this script and support someone in major transformation.
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like, well, from the way I hear it,
it
sounds like both your parents had that as their mission in life. Yeah. Totally. Mm-hmm. I mean, my da- the, my dad's version was, like, I, I like recipes. Like, he came from a chemistry background. He's like, he, he, his goal was always to create such a complete recipe that a total idiot could follow it and get the result.
I know. I need those kinds of recipes for my cooking. You know, that you don't need any training, any background. Uh-huh. You just, you know, I know how to read, so I'll just read through the recipe and I end up with the cake that I was hoping for. And he wanted to do that for personal change. [01:15:00] Mm-hmm. Personal transformation.
Yeah. So- He sounds like human, um, like he was a real servant of the human experience, trying to help- Yeah ... people know themselves better. Yeah. Be free from whatever weighed them down. Yeah. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Totally, totally. His name is Andreas also. Yeah, he took my mom's last name. Oh, okay. Yeah. When you said your aunt- Yeah
is your mom's sister, I got a little confused. Yes, people usually do. He took your mom's maiden name. Yeah, sometimes people are like, "So," like, you know, they're like, "Does, does, does your dad have, like, multiple wives?" Or like, "What's going on here?" They're like, "Just how do I bring up the question?" So. They were ahead of their time.
I love it. Yeah. Yeah, he, uh, he didn't really like his first name, so he went by his last name. Stevens was, so he went by Steve. So Steve Stevens was a bit redundant, so he was happy to take my mom's [01:16:00] last name. Fair. He had the right idea. So he became an Andreas. So he became an Andreas, yeah. Hmm. Well, is there anything more that you would wanna leave our listeners with? Any, um- Way that you wanna tell people how they can contact you? I know you shared your website already.
I'll throw that into the show notes along with that- Yeah ... micro book, and anything else you wanna send my way. Yeah. Yeah. What I would say is, come to the training. That's really the easiest entryway in,
but you also have that micro book that you can check out on your own, explore guiding yourself through. And if you find that you can't really guide yourself through, that's okay. That's part of the normal range of experience. So, um, for some people, it's just gonna be, um, being guided by somebody else where you get to experience it, so.
That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know if I would- Yeah ... be someone who would have great success guiding myself. Yeah. Yeah. A l- a lot of
I'll-
Then they can reach out to you or another [01:17:00] Core Transformation practitioner. Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course, there's always the personal co- coaching option as well. So my website's markandreas.com.
You can contact me that way. And, um, and also once you're guided through, you know, a lot of my clients, once I guide them through a number of times and they have that experience, then it's something that they're able to guide themselves through. And then other people are like, "Never interested in guiding myself."
That's cool too. It takes a lot of discipline. You know, it does take ... It is, you know, of course easier having somebody else guide you because you're not having to track both sides of it, so. Mark, you're so well-spoken about all of this. And- I've been talking about it for a while. Yeah, I know. I know. But you have a lot to share.
Oh, thank you. And so much wisdom. Oh. Thank you- Thanks so much for- ... for imparting it Thanks so much for- And then like- ... hosting the space and asking such great questions, and yeah, um, and doing what you do and [01:18:00] helping share this with everything else, all the other awesome work that you're doing. I am glad to do that, and I'm glad to spread your message to the world.
Like- And looking forward to- ... this needs to be known ... further collaboration of core transformation and couples work. 'Cause I think there's a lot of- Yeah ... really cool potential there, so. We should talk. We'll, we'll talk, yeah. Yeah. I'm fascinated by it too. Yeah. Neat. Okay. Awesome. Thanks so much for doing this with me.
Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you for spending this time with me on facets of connection. This podcast is part of my broader work through Lead Your Love Life and the Radiant Connection Lab, where I guide couples who feel distant, stuck in old patterns or disconnected from their spark to rebuild, closeness, communicate with care, and to fall in love all over again.
If you'd like to explore that work further, you can learn more at Lead Your Love life.com. I'd also love to [01:19:00] hear what this episode sparked for you. You can send me an email or a voice memo to sarah@facetsofconnection.com. I read every single message, and sometimes a listener story might become part of a future episode.
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